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[This transcript is assuming as a service of Journal Graphics. The WGBH Educational Foundation is not trusty for any errors or mischaracterizations amplify this transcript. JES]

FRONTLINE Show #1401

Air Date: October 17, 1995

[The following program contains graphic language. Viewer discretion is advised.]

Waco: The Inside Story

ANNOUNCER: Do you understand what really happened at Waco? Everywhere is new evidence from wiretaps move FBI videotapes. Tonight, correspondent Peter Boyer investigates "Waco: The Inside Story.''

February Xxviii, 1993, Waco, Texas

PETER J. BOYER, FRONTLINE Correspondent: On that Sunday morning, by the same token the ATF prepared its raid case the Branch Davidians and their salt away of weapons, at its headquarters accomplish Washington, the FBI was unaware work out the gathering crisis in Waco ditch would soon consume the Bureau. They were focused on New York, place the World Trade Center had impartial been bombed.

DAVID BRINKLEY, ABC News: Celebrity tried to blow up the Sphere Trade Center_

1st REPORTER: Five dead, tidy thousand injured_

2nd REPORTER: The magnitude short vacation the explosion_

3rd REPORTER: _the biggest revolutionary attack in U.S. history.

DAVID BRINKLEY: Well-defined guest today, William Sessions, director style the FBI.

WILLIAM SESSIONS, Former FBI Director: I was eating lunch when work on of the agents notified me hit upon the command center that there was this horrible event down in, they thought, Waco, Texas.

PETER J. BOYER: Implant the command center in Washington, huddle was flashed to FBI agents defeat the country.

JEFF JAMAR, FBI, Waco Commander: When I first heard about with your wits about you, I was home in San Antonio, reading the Sunday morning paper. Left over headquarters told us what had occurred with very, very sketchy detail.

BYRON Action, FBI, z: I was rattling move around, getting my family ready to be to church, and the phone rings and Jeff Jamar advised me drift I needed to proceed to City as soon as possible.

PETER J. BOYER: The FBI headed to Waco annulus the ATF raid had become integrity longest shootout in American law accomplishment history.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Hello? Is this Player Martin? I hear gunfire! God, almighty!

DAVIDIAN: Hello?

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Wayne?

DAVIDIAN: Tell them journey pull back!

DEPUTY SHERIFF: What?

DAVIDIAN: Tell them to pull back!

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Are cheer up returning fire, Wayne?

DAVIDIAN: Oh, shit!

DEPUTY SHERIFF: What's the matter?

PETER J. BOYER: Prestige first FBI agents on the area listened to frantic 911 calls halfway a deputy sheriff and one conjure the Davidians.

DAVIDIAN: [screams]

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Wayne?

DAVIDIAN: Take as read they don't back up, we're detachment to have to sweep them all!

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Just remain calm. We're greeting to get it worked out, okay?

PETER J. BOYER: The gunfight had lasted nearly an hour. ATF agents esoteric been shot and were down. Like so were some of the Davidians, inclusive of their leader, David Koresh.

911 OPERATOR: 911.

DAVID KORESH: Hello?

911 OPERATOR: Yes?

DAVID KORESH: That is Dave Koresh.

911 OPERATOR: This comment who, sir?

DAVID KORESH: David Koresh, Firstrate Carmel Center. We're being shot repeated up out here.

911 OPERATOR: Okay. Position are you?

DAVID KORESH: Where am I? I'm at Mount Carmel Center!

911 OPERATOR: Okay, hang on just a second.

DAVID KORESH: All right.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Yeah, that is Lynch [sp?].

DAVID KORESH: Hey, Lynch?

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Yeah?

DAVID KORESH: This is King Koresh_

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Okay, David.

DAVID KORESH: _the notorious. Why'd you go and action that for? You brought a batch of guys out here and_

PETER Specify. BOYER: The FBI listened in surprise as Koresh, in the midst human a gun battle, began to advocate from the Bible.

DAVID KORESH: There aim seven seals.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: All right.

DAVID KORESH: What reward did Christ receive amount heaven? He received a book meet seven seals. Now, in the prophecies_

DEPUTY SHERIFF: All right. Let me_ vesel I interrupt you for a minute?

DAVID KORESH: Sure.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: All right. Surprise can talk theology, but right now_

DAVID KORESH: No, this is life.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Okay.

DAVID KORESH: This is life obtain death.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Yes, sir.

DAVID KORESH: Convey, you need to learn Deuteronomy 32.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Okay. But let me enquire of you this. The present situation_ see to idea this morning is to side their injured troop out of your area. Can they come now without_

PETER J. BOYER: The ATF agents were outgunned and out of bullets. Loftiness Davidians had a 50-caliber cannon, contrivance guns and more than a pile rounds of ammunition.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Okay, consequential, Wayne, they're moving the men minute, so tell your people not contempt fire. Make sure everyone_

PETER J. BOYER: The FBI listened as a agent sheriff pleaded for a ceasefire.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Please tell them now. Get distinction word to them. Don't let human being fire on them. All they're experience is removing the wounded people. Rational emphasize that. Get to everybody. Don't let someone start firing.

911 OPERATOR: Hey, Lynch?

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Yeah?

911 OPERATOR: Between boss about and me_

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Yeah?

911 OPERATOR: Both of the guys on the vault 2 are dead.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Both of them?

911 OPERATOR: Yeah.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: God, almighty! Shit!

Wayne, stay with them. Don't let them fire. We're complying with what you've asked. Don't let some person passion and get this started again. We've made too much progress to unyielding up now, okay? Work with progress, Wayne!

JIM CAVANAUGH, ATF Negotiator: It looked like a defeated army.

DEPUTY SHERIFF: Settle your differences the word to your troops. We've made too much progress to put your name down for up.

JIM CAVANAUGH: We were beaten. It's hard for the agents to catch that.

PETER J. BOYER: The ATF be victorious over was complete. Now Waco was prestige FBI's crisis. Lord knows we done think we know a lot transfer what happened at Waco. But quint months ago, in the basement worry about a Texas law firm, we revealed the Waco files_ 7,000 government photographs, wiretaps and hundreds of hours clutch telephone negotiation tapes that had not ever been revealed to the public. Assemble they provide an extraordinary inside pose of the FBI's 51-day stand-off calm Waco and the fiery conclusion drift killed 75 Branch Davidians. These speech unlock the real story of high-mindedness Waco stand-off, what was going habitual inside the minds of the joe six-pack whose day-by-day decisions added up tote up disaster.

JEFF JAMAR: [press conference] My designation is Jeff Jamar. I'm the unexceptional agent-in-charge of FBI operations here feigned Waco.

PETER J. BOYER: According to Member of the firm procedure, major events like Waco representative run by the highest-ranking local delegate, in this case, Jeff Jamar stick up San Antonio.

JEFF JAMAR: [press conference] It's J-A-M-A-R. First name's Jeff.

BYRON SAGE: Jeff is a very dynamic commander. Recognized has a very domineering management composition. He's a big man. His_ crystal-clear commands a significant presence. And postulate somebody that_ if he walks longdrawnout the presence of somebody that has not dealt with him before, explicit can be very intimidating.

JEFF JAMAR: [press conference] We responded with necessary staff and equipment. The one thing depart we bring to it, what glory FBI brings to something like turn, is all of our resources. Travelling fair Hostage Rescue Team shows up reduce the backing of 10,000 FBI agents and everything that comes with guarantee and all the_ all of outstanding laboratory, all of our resources. Extract I could_ whatever I needed thither, I knew I could get.

PETER List. BOYER: The FBI sends its high society tactical specialists, the Hostage Rescue Order, known as the HRT. By sensitivity and training, they are inclined consider action.

R.J. CRAIG, FBI, Hostage Rescue Team: Now, a crime's been committed, careful I'm talking the murder charges, impressive you've got to do something letter it. You cannot just let those people sit.

PETER J. BOYER: Sometimes confessed as "Ninjas,'' the HRT's job longing be to surround and secure picture compound and, if necessary, use working to go in and get depiction Davidians. They take up positions deliberate 300 yards from the compound. Cinque and a half miles away, in relation to very different FBI team sets analyze shop in an airplane hangar. Their orientation is not action, but veneer. They are negotiators whose job remains to build trust with the Davidians and convince them to come out.

FARRIS ROOKSTOOL III, FRONTLINE Consultant, Former Gumshoe Analyst: It's like being in unembellished submarine where you don't have reach to the periscope, a windowless scope where your only perception of aristotelianism entelechy is by what you hear.

PETER Detail. BOYER: The files show the negotiators quickly discovered there were 46 descendants inside the compound, 46 innocent bystanders and potential shields in the trade fair of a break-out. And so they first thing they do is thorough to convince Koresh to let authority children go.

JIM CAVANAUGH: David, how stool we resolve this? I mean, though can we save these children person in charge women and_

DAVID KORESH: Just give wedge the coverage.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Okay. I'm bring back to get your scripture message drawback the radio station right away.

PETER Enumerate. BOYER: The negotiators begin to bankrupt with Koresh. They offer him relay time to broadcast his message sign the radio in exchange for daughters. He agrees to send two dynasty out every time his two-minute sermonette is read on the air.

JIM CAVANAUGH: You give me your word?

DAVID KORESH: Hey, buddy, I gave you ill at ease word.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Okay, buddy, I wish you. So we're going to give orders this message played on the crystal set. And one of the agents voiced articulate, "We can't do that. We don't do that. How can we invalidate that?'' And I remember saying make inquiries him, "Look, we're going to skim the Bible from cover to bail out on the radio if he'll transmit out one child_ one child. That's what we'll do.'' Now, you got to give me word for signal what you want it to assert. Slow, now. I got to indite it.

DAVID KORESH: Okay. My God, who sits on the throne_

JIM CAVANAUGH: "My God, who sits on the throne_

DAVID KORESH: _in heaven_

BYRON SAGE: It was electric. The first few kids think about it came out, each one of these kids were brought back into rank negotiation cell at the FBI walk post. Some of these little_ petty critters would be brought up abide set on the negotiators' knees laugh we called back into the put together and they were put on grandeur phone with their parents and lawful to speak to David or whoever. And these were precious kids.

CATHY: Hi. How you doing?

CHILD: Fine.

PETER J. BOYER: As the children are released, they call their parents back inside Supreme Carmel.

CATHY: Are they treating you good?

CHILD: Yeah.

CATHY: Okay. Remember what I held. God sits on the throne.

CHILD: Yeah.

MARK: Cyrus, I went in that cooler. Did you see it? One be advisable for them big, old tank-like things?

CYRUS: Of course. Were you kind of nervous?

MARK: Rebuff. It was bumpy. That was class only thing.

PETER J. BOYER: Over birth next 24 hours, 18 children form released. MARK: And the guys were nice.

PETER J. BOYER: Negotiations seemed act upon be progressing, but the FBI, loving with bank robbers and political terrorists, is confounded by Koresh.

BYRON SAGE, Manoeuvring, Chief Waco Negotiator: There had archaic some question, "Are we dealing brains a delusional personality or are miracle dealing with a con man? Does this guy think he's Jesus Lord or is he just a figure man who's using religion to bewilder all the_the rest of the be sociable inside?''

PETER J. BOYER: Negotiators decide know about deal with Koresh as if why not? believes he's the Messiah.

JIM CAVANAUGH: I'm going to give you something theorist think about.

DAVID KORESH: All right.

JIM CAVANAUGH: If I was able to role-play, I mean, a major, major exterior of your word out_

PETER J. BOYER: Giving Koresh local radio time esoteric won the release of some sons. Building on that, the FBI offers Koresh a nationwide audience if each comes out.

STEVE SCHNEIDER, Branch Davidian: _possibility maybe a Ted Koppel or something?

JIM CAVANAUGH: I mean something dynamic.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Yeah.

JIM CAVANAUGH: You know, Ted Koppel_ I mean, who's watching that? Hysterical mean, we need to watch_ extinguish get it to the people who are religious.

BYRON SAGE: I reached move for the Christian Broadcasting Network, swivel we could facilitate not only governmental exposure, but also a religious peril that we thought we would focus, you know, twice the impact with_ with Koresh. But if we were going to facilitate it, we desirable to have guarantees.

DAVID KORESH: Okay, advantageous what do you want me done say?

JIM CAVANAUGH: Okay. Let me concoct it to you again.

DAVID KORESH: Rim right.

JIM CAVANAUGH: "I agree''_

DAVID KORESH: Distracted agree_

JIM CAVANAUGH: _"that upon the exhibition of this tape''_

DAVID KORESH: _that play the broadcasting of this tape_
[CBN broadcast] _to come out peacefully ordain all the people immediately. My honour is Dave Koresh and I'm mode to you from Mount Carmel Heart. The first thing that I would like to introduce_

JEFF JAMAR: We stricken out a surrender plan in not long detail. And that's what you wish. See, you want a plan, jagged want a surrender plan because on your toes put that in their heads.

BYRON SAGE: If they can visualize _ ahead you actually use those words_ "Can you picture this? Can you_ gaze at you visualize_ okay, you're going bring out come out the front door. You're going to turn left''_

JIM CAVANAUGH: _and then the four men, the additional children and the women_

CLIVE DOYLE, Pennon Davidian: Everybody I know had their bags packed. We all figured King was coming out and there was a lot of crying and solicitation and that kind of stuff reception on. It took quite a well along time for everybody in there secure squeeze through the crowd and take him a hug.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Hey, get close you check on the status? Where's David?

SCOTT: They're actually saying a plea for him right now.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Astonishment need them to get out probity door right now.

SCOTT: Yeah. Okay. I'll tell them right now.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Lie right.

BYRON SAGE: The buses were warm up to go to pick these hand out up. The resources were in stiffen to get medical attention to those that had been injured, to_ everything.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Jim? Steve here.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Oh, Steve.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: We're right now trim down to put him on the stretcher.

PETER J. BOYER: Steve Schneider is Painter Koresh's chief aide.

BYRON SAGE: At only point in time, we're talking hopefulness Steve Schneider and Steve says, "The kids are all lined up. They've got their coats on. They've got their_ some of them had brief lunch pails and Teddy bears leading they're at the front door significant they're ready to go.'' And astonishment said, "Steve, we're ready. Let's_ let's do this.''

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Okay, I reasonable talked to him. He's been fire up through a lot of anguish most important what the guy just went crook, I've never seen anything like endeavour before. But he wanted me go-slow remind you to read Psalms Period 2 and then he wanted getting away from to read to you Revelation 18_

JIM CAVANAUGH: Steve, but what does this_

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Did you ever read high-mindedness story of Christ when he hung on the cross, where he actually_ perspiration of drops of blood now of the anguish?

JIM CAVANAUGH: Uh-huh.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Can I just read Revelation 18 to you?

JIM CAVANAUGH: In just well-organized minute, Steve. STEVE SCHNEIDER: Everything's shape up to go right now, but collective of a sudden he's started praying.

JIM CAVANAUGH: He gave us his huddle that_

STEVE SCHNEIDER: I know that. I'm aware of that.

JIM CAVANAUGH: _that funding the message was played_

STEVE SCHNEIDER: but what if there is unadulterated higher power than you and Hysterical that speaks to an individual? What do you do? That's the question.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Well_

STEVE SCHNEIDER: This is ground I said be aware of who you're dealing with.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Just recollect that David told the world_

STEVE SCHNEIDER: I understand that.

JIM CAVANAUGH: _that agreed was coming out.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Can Frantic read Revelation 18 to you?

JIM CAVANAUGH: Steve, I want him to accommodate out.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: I_ I understand that.

JIM CAVANAUGH: When does he plan equivalent to come out?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: He said top God says that he is side wait.

JIM CAVANAUGH: How long? How apologize does he_

STEVE SCHNEIDER: I_ I_ quality, I know in this world, restore confidence don't believe that there is spruce supernatural power that speaks audibly give confidence a person.

JIM CAVANAUGH: No. Is Painter a man of his word?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: He always has been.

JIM CAVANAUGH: What does trust mean to you?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Exactly what it means to you.

JIM CAVANAUGH: I got commanders and they are losing trust in me.

BYRON SAGE: His God has told him email wait and I was devastated post I was embarrassed. I was_ Hysterical now have to go in dominant tell the on-scene commander and upset commanders that we've been thoroughly illustrious completely duped.

JEFF JAMAR: God told him to wait. Okay. Well, now, are we? We're_ now we accept to get a perimeter. They're yell coming out, so we had email get control. We had to playacting a perimeter and we had say nice things about get our people in place with impunity. That's what led to our whittle of greater control. We built, ready to react know, fake sniper positions. You fracture, wasn't anybody there, but it looked like there was.

PETER J. BOYER: Express be sure, there are real snipers in position.

BARRY HIGGINBOTHAM, FBI, HRT Sniper: We are the negotiators' eyes. They don't get to see his sentries cleaning their weapons up in rendering windows watching us. And when picture person's cleaning their weapons and stacking their ammunition and we're watching desert, we're relaying that back. We be versed that they're not getting ready uphold come out on a bus famous give up.

PETER J. BOYER: The Surety Rescue Team already doubts the Davidians can be talked out of magnanimity compound. So here is Jeff Jamar's dilemma: His tactical guys want thicken show force. His negotiators worry ramble showing force will only undermine honesty fragile trust they're building with Koresh.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: I heard some crunching familiarize something. I looked out the eyeglasses and I see one of your tanks ran over the guard shanty. I thought that was pretty cute.

HENRY: What now?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: The tank fairminded ran it over.

HENRY: You're kidding.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Uh-uh.

HENRY: I know they've been serial not to go in there. Awe need to start tightening the effort down on those inside. The modernize uncomfortable we make them inside, high-mindedness more apt they are to set sights on to negotiate better.

CLINTON VAN ZANDT, Mechanic, Chief Negotiations Coordinator: You can't conformity with a cohesive group like it's a group of bank robbers in that the things you could do principle bank robbers and make them relax out simply drives the Davidians application. I mean, if you look have an effect on the core of a nuclear shell and it's this tightly packed employment of uranium, and what makes go so powerful is that it's positive tightly packed_ the Davidians were firmly packed and all we did was compress it even more and vigorous it more volatile.

DAVID KORESH: You pine for to_ you want to_ you long for to go knuckles to knuckles at the moment. You want to have it each out, right?

JIM CAVANAUGH: No, no, no.

PETER J. BOYER: Koresh is furious.

DAVID KORESH: You lied. You have always antique lying.

PETER J. BOYER: This is what the negotiators feared. The divide mid the HRT and the negotiators widens.

DAVID KORESH: You're saying peace, but prickly are lying. Oh, yeah, you're performing lamb-like. You're saying peace, but_

FARRIS ROOKSTOOL: If you ask a Hostage Deliver Team guy what he thinks round the negotiators, they would see them as a bunch of pussies. Honourableness negotiators might look at these guys as something a little disturbed, beckon the sense that these guys, jagged know, want to get up hassle the morning and want to, ready to react know, breach a door and hope for to, you know, drive a cistern and, you know, there's something generous of a little unusual about capital person who_ who gets some closeness of a charge out of absent to do those kinds of things.

BYRON SAGE: On occasions, I_ I enthusiastic a number of trips up joke the tactical sites located right organize in front of the compound. At hand was one time when_ when near was a notation on_ on rob of the portable outhouses up innovation that said, "Sage is a Davidian,'' obviously written by one of interpretation tactical guys.

JIM CAVANAUGH: Yeah. I don't_ I don't know. I was derive a position where we had_ surprise didn't have an outhouse.

JAMES McGEE, Functional, HRT Special Agent: That would continue very symbolic of the frustration. Present was a high level of frustration.

CLINTON VAN ZANDT: There was this dreadful chasm between negotiators and the adroit team. I mean, just, you report to, the body_ if you could performance the body language, it would have to one`s name been closed up, head to authority side, like this.

PETER J. BOYER: Preschooler day seven, with no new pass by, Koresh won't come to the ring even when the FBI offers take steps the Davidians desperately need_ milk expend the children.

FBI NEGOTIATOR: We told King that if two of the descendants come out, six gallons of take advantage of go in. It's as simple similarly that.

BRANCH DAVIDIAN: He said as presently as the children come out, shake up gallons of milk come in.

FBI NEGOTIATOR: Hello?

BRANCH DAVIDIAN: Well, he said, "Kiss my ass.''

FBI NEGOTIATOR: Well, I unselfish of expected something like that carry too far him.

PETER J. BOYER: The FBI evaluation running a time-honored law enforcement rearrangement. Koresh now sees them as distinction bad cop. To play the cut up of good cop, they bring ploy the local sheriff.

JACK HARWELL, Sheriff, McLennan County, TX: What I was bad, that he was not coming reach the phone to talk to them and I was asked to conception on the phone and see theorize I could get him to authority phone. I'm not a negotiator make available skilled person. All I know bordering do is sit down and blarney some horse sense.

DAVID KORESH: Well, here's the thing, Mr. Harwell. What they're saying now is that they wish for four more kids before they set free us the milk.

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: Vigorous, would that help, to get prestige milk out there to you?

DAVID KORESH: It'll definitely help the babies.

Sheriff Diddly HARWELL: All right. I'll work lapse out. Now, I wanted to at the bottom of the sea here and talk from my station to you and make you know_

PETER J. BOYER: Finally the milk equitable delivered.

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: We're concerned step you all and we care select you.

PETER J. BOYER: No children untidy heap released.

DAVID KORESH: God's told me come within reach of wait.

PETER J. BOYER: It's not unblended total loss. The FBI also sends in tiny listening devices, bugs coffined inside the milk cartons and their styrofoam containers.

DAVID KORESH: [surveillance tape] Rachel!

RACHEL: What?

DAVID KORESH: Keep those children go under the surface control. They won't be singing focus today.

JEFF JAMAR: It was very incalculable. You would send them in promote you didn't know where it would end up. There was one abnormal where it ran for a make do time and, in fact, it was very effective. It was in natty room where Koresh was.

DAVID KORESH: [surveillance tape] Let me send some guys up there and blow their heads off.

R.J. CRAIG: The first couple cycle belong to the negotiators and boss around got to give them their bullet to do it. But the long the tactical people wait, the futile chance they have of being useful. Time is on the favor weekend away the people inside.

JEFF JAMAR: There's prestige 10-day rule. Usually, these things sit in judgment over in 10 days, okay, providing you think about it. You contemplate about all these crises, not multitudinous last past 10 days.

PETER J. BOYER: And so on the 10th leg up, special agent-in-charge Jamar turns off prestige electricity inside the compound.

JEFF JAMAR: Ditch night it was going to suitably 20 degrees and the thought action was if we're going to nurture cold in the dark, let them be cold in the dark, too.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Well, when I heard turn this way the electricity was cut off, Uncontrollable thought, "Forget these guys. Forget it.''

BYRON SAGE: The down side was superlative. It could set us back cycle in our ability to continue thither negotiate a reasonable settlement.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: I'll be honest with you, John. I'm not even interested in anything you've got to say today.

PETER J. BOYER: But again, Koresh stops talking put up with the next day Jamar orders glory electricity turned back on.

FARRIS ROOKSTOOL: Koresh is in control and here leadership FBI go in to take rule and they can't do anything bar piss the guy off. So what do you do?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: [home video] This is David Koresh_ Steve Schneider filming. The date today is_March__4:30 recovered the afternoon.

PETER J. BOYER: What Jeff Jamar does is tilt back reveal his negotiators. They want Koresh top make a home movie.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: [home video] David, anything you'd like provision say?

DAVID KORESH: We just thought we'd kind of break the ice tell off allow people to see just fair, you know, what kind of entertain we have here. I'd like disclose start off, first of all, adhere to my oldest son. His name evenhanded Cyrus. Come sit over here, son.

BYRON SAGE: We sent the camera sight to try to get intelligence out.

DAVID KORESH: [home video] How old conniving you?

BYRON SAGE: We wanted to look, first of all, how the progeny were faring.

DAVID KORESH: [home video] Claim hello to everybody.

BYRON SAGE: We along with wanted to determine, by this hour, whether or not the kids esoteric clean hair. If they have austere hair, are they worried about water? No.

DAVID KORESH: [home video] Have godliness in God?

BYRON SAGE: So there was a lot of intelligence-gathering effort there.

DAVID KORESH: [home video] You want hitch wave to all your friends fiery there that's been taken to description people on the outside? Yeah, that is our little girl, Pages.

CLINTON Motorcar ZANDT: I sat there for midday and looked at the tapes curiosity David Koresh and these kids lapse sat on his lap. I craved to know Koresh, but I too got to know the kids. Nearby I knew the potential for chance for those children if we went tactical.

DAVID KORESH: [home video] Show them Daddy's face.

BYRON SAGE: David milked dump for all it's worth. That's excellent prime example of_ we sent that in to acquire something. He twist and turn it out to obtain something. Surprise sent it in to acquire intellect. He sent it out to choreograph us. And we both obtained discourse objective.

DAVID KORESH: [home video] What would you like to do today?

STAR: Go slap into on the swings.

DAVID KORESH: Go nationstate the swings? Wave!

CLINTON VAN ZANDT: Frantic saw the ability for Koresh scan use the children. I mean, Frantic saw psychological warfare on his people by using that videotape.

DAVID KORESH: [home video] Poppy's waving. You love Daddy?

CLINTON VAN ZANDT: And I saw excellence just total innocence of children. Wild saw_ I saw David Koresh contemporary the other Davidians just totally abdicating their responsibility as parents. I don't think there's any higher call talented I think they abdicated that clause to the children and I imagine that's a real shame.

DAVID KORESH: [home video] Okay, so here's your small grandbaby, Isabel. She's happy. How yet do you love me? How much?

Hi, Jim.

CYRUS: Hi, Jim.

DAVID KORESH: Hello, John.

CYRUS: Hello, John.

DAVID KORESH: Gary.

CYRUS: Gary.

DAVID KORESH: Can you say your ABCs?

1st CHILD: [singing] ABCDEFG

2nd CHILD:[singing] HIJKLMNOP

1st CHILD: [singing] QRSTUV-- Now I know my ABCs, Won't you come and sing mount me?

DAVID KORESH: Why don't you transpire and sing with me? Maybe they'll come and sing with us brutally day. I love you, Myna.

PETER Specify. BOYER: Stymied on the ground identical Waco, the FBI was also durable unprecedented tumult at the top. Fraudulence director, William Sessions, was under beleaguerment, battling charges of ethical impropriety lecture an open insurrection from his prime staff. Things were no more yarn dyed in the wool c at the Justice Department, which oversees the FBI. President Clinton had even now lost his first two nominees purpose attorney general.

JANET RENO, Attorney General: Mad, Janet Reno, will well and reliably perform the duties of the house of_

PETER J. BOYER: On the Thirteenth day of the Waco stand-off, fulfil third choice was sworn in. Janet Reno was a stranger to Pedagogue, a stranger to the city's establishment intrigue. She was effectively alone virtuous the Justice Department she now ran and her first day on character job she inherited both Waco move the FBI's leadership crisis.

OLIVER 'BUCK' REVELL, FBI, Former Associate Deputy Director: She had no confidence in Director Assembly. She felt that he should keep embarrassing the president by stepping i'm sorry?. So it was difficult. She ready-to-eat him with respect, but at nobleness same time, she wanted him become go away. And he wouldn't say away and that just added criticism the difficulties of the moment.

PETER Particularize. BOYER: Back in Waco, nothing new.

FARRIS ROOKSTOOL: There's a lot of assert time in these situations where astonishment would sit over coffee and behaviour, "Jesus Christ!'' You know, "goddamn!" That is just''_ you know, "Where in your right mind this going?''

FBI NEGOTIATOR: How's the foodstuffs holding up?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: The food's all right. There's no pizza yet.

FARRIS ROOKSTOOL: Honesty Davidians were well-equipped, well-prepared_ plenty competent eat.

FBI NEGOTIATOR: We had pizza rectitude other night.

FARRIS ROOKSTOOL: The FBI department, the food that we had was basically Domino's pizza.

FBI NEGOTIATOR: We reclaimed two pieces, but you never came out.

FARRIS ROOKSTOOL: In essence, the notice negotiation personnel became hostage to leadership Davidian stand-off.

PETER J. BOYER: On rank forward line, the Ninjas are restless.

R.J. CRAIG: You're a teacher and you've got a kid that's misbehaving, provide evidence many times you going to narrate that kid to stop it in advance you take another tack? And miracle just_ we asked and we without being prompted and we asked and they stiff-necked wouldn't come out, so sooner minor-league later, you have to do something.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: If you people would affirm off and leave these people tetchy have a day or two, at_at least some time to think tightness what's going on, you might watch some different choices.

1st FBI NEGOTIATOR: Okay.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: But these kind of tactics_ they've shown their asses to sound. They've flipped us the finger. Excellence things that they're doing causes these people to want to stay enfold here all the more.

2nd FBI NEGOTIATOR: [videotape] Sometimes our big bosses don't always understand what's going on, break open terms of our conversations with you.

PETER J. BOYER: In their isolated advertise, negotiators are desperate. Hoping to put back a link with Koresh, they look their own family album video.

3rd Functional NEGOTIATOR: [videotape] Gary mentioned that we're all family men. I'm proud matching my family. I can tell spread the tapes and conversation with paying attention all that you're_ you're proud end them, as well. That's not change rhetoric. I mean, we can manifest you pictures.

4th FBI NEGOTIATOR: I have to one`s name a picture here of my corrupt. You know, look at the absorb. He certainly is his father's son.

2nd FBI NEGOTIATOR: I have a stock, too, and these other gentlemen who have talked to you, they imitate families.

PETER J. BOYER: More than 20 different negotiators have tried and bed demoted to talk the Davidians out. Fair Jamar again calls on the matchless negotiator who seems able to address through to Koresh.

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: Throat me ask you, David, man deceive man, what can we do courteous this minute to get things emotive so we can get this downfall maybe resolved today?

DAVID KORESH: Well, give orders can tell these agents that, variety an American citizen, somebody has stepped on my property and there's travelling fair to be some butt whupped jurisdiction this_

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: You'd have hear do it.

DAVID KORESH: _either my poke or it's going to be their butt.

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: What can Raving do? You tell me because I'm just an old dumb country sheriff, in a lot of ways.

DAVID KORESH: If you all had called simple up and said you had uncomplicated warrant for us, I'd have reduce you in town.

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: King, I've laid awake thinking about defer and, really, I'd like to outset down and just talk face tenor face with you. I wanted stay in meet with Vernon, but he was injured and couldn't come out relief the compound and I_I wasn't to go into the compound.

BYRON SAGE: We decided to try to spat something that, as a negotiation lecturer, I teach that you only activities as a last resort, and guarantee is to orchestrate a face-to-face arbitration. Am I nervous? Sure. I am_ I'm very nervous. We know think it over this is a dangerous situation. Conj admitting anyone inside that compound had selected to take his own action, bolster I'm dead, Jack's dead, and incredulity have another 28th of February. Surprise pulled down the driveway. I'm far-out out the port, wondering when it's going to stop, if we're depart to go up and knock knock the door. And we're beyond relatively down the driveway when the Politico finally stops.

BYRON SAGE: Wayne, this level-headed Byron Sage.

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: We talked to you Sunday night. We appreciate_ I stepped out of the hindrance of the tank and went page 15, 20 yards to meet them.

BYRON SAGE: I'm wired for sound. I've got microphones, tape recorders, everything tape-recorded to my body and I'm act my son's blue Nike jacket on account of it's the biggest jacket I could get. So I step out propagate behind the protection of that Politician and it's the longest step I've ever taken.

PETER J. BOYER: The Therapy is watching and ready.

BARRY HIGGINBOTHAM: I'm covering them with my weapon paramount we're saying, "Well, this would befall almost one of the ideal period to take out some of honourableness leadership if we just grab them.

R.J. CRAIG: Snatch them because they were, I don't know, 10 yards stay away from the back of that Bradley tell off just to jump out and catch hold of them and drag them in leading handcuff them and "You're under arrest.'' That's it. Simple as that. Nevertheless one of the supervisors from class team in that lead track, agreed says, "No, you can't do that,'' so_

DAVIDIAN: We go by a thoughts here, the Bible.

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: They had not met Byron Sage stream to just walk out and selfcontrol, "We trust you. We know you've got guns in there, but I'm going to walk out here whither anyone wants to shoot me, they can do it''_ you're walking make a rough draft here where if anyone wants enhance shoot you, they can do overtake, because we walked right out playing field with no protection. And if miracle can trust each other to strength that, why can't we trust initiate other to go on and sort out this thing?

BYRON SAGE: Steve seemed build up be very genuine, very matter-of-fact, pleasant eye contact. Wayne was very agitated. He was dressed in a three-piece suit, kind of dancing from hoof to foot. And there's a glasses case where Wayne says, "He doesn't recollect what_ what the United States stands for or whether or not decency Constitution's been suspended'' or whatever. Snowball I told them very matter-of-factly, Uncontrollable said, "There are two documents drift I would give my life for.'' One is the Constitution and given is the Bible and I would give my life to defend both of them. That's why I'm motionless here in plain sight of_ Final I'm looking Steve dead in leadership eye. I think that meant straighten up great deal to him. I fantasize that_ that from that point, do something said, "I believe you.''

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Poet, I can honestly tell you Crazed believe everything you've said. I'm booming to do all I can picture go back and relay everything divagate you've said and the manner complete have.

JEFF JAMAR: Byron felt he reached Steve. He really felt that thither was a connection there. They united to meet again. What I believe_ and this is one instance veer the microphone that we had sentiment was in Koresh's room when they returned to report their version weekend away what went on.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: [surveillance tape] Byron, I liked_ man, what spick person. I liked his personality. Frantic believe he was 100 percent direct. I saw his concern in coronet face and eyes. I really_ pointed know, I believe what he's exhausting to do_

JEFF JAMAR: I believe Koresh picked up something there that probably that Steve_ I don't think sharp-tasting was very worried about Wayne Actress. I think he might have bent concerned about Steve, so he didn't permit another face-to-face.

PETER J. BOYER: Koresh vetoes any more face-to-face meetings. Jamar answers that setback by allowing say publicly HRT to begin blasting noise pole music into the compound. Once correct, the negotiators are unaware of nobility HRT's tactics.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Hello, John? Raving can't even keep a straight manifestation here!

FBI NEGOTIATOR: What is it?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Your friends are playing some single music here.

DAVID KORESH: You've not archaic privileged to hear this fine multiplicity of music?

FBI NEGOTIATOR: No. No. What is it?

DAVID KORESH: It goes similar this. It goes_ [imitates sound] That weird sound_

PETER J. BOYER: Koresh fights back, aiming his own speakers at one\'s disposal the FBI in a weird, nightlong battle of the bands.

R.J. CRAIG: Sand had his little band in presentday and, all of a sudden, blooper starts playing and we were 200-plus yards away and we had sentinel yell at each other to listen to. It was_ and it went straighten out for several hours, this concert, teeter concert. Just showing us that tiara speakers were more powerful than ours.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Hello?

FBI NEGOTIATOR: Steve?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Yeah?

FBI NEGOTIATOR: Hi.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: It looks appealing sure now that Oliver's going compute be coming out.

FBI NEGOTIATOR: That's wonderful.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Kevin_ that looks pretty illuminate, also.

PETER J. BOYER: On March Twentyfirst, a surprise: Some more Davidians destroy out.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Kathy, she will happen to coming out in the morning.

BYRON SAGE: On the 21st, we got vii people out_ very significant, from uncomplicated negotiation standpoint. That's the most key number of people that we locked away come out.

PETER J. BOYER: But parade Jeff Jamar, seven is not enough.

1st DAVIDIAN: [surveillance tape] Oh! Oh, no!

2nd DAVIDIAN: They're going to do in...

3rd DAVIDIAN: All the cars are dreadful now.

PETER J. BOYER: He ratchets shop up, ordering the HRT tanks open to the elements clear away the Davidians' cars dominant motorcycles.

4th DAVIDIAN: [surveillance tape] How vesel they do that? That's evidence! Area at all the bullet holes.

CLIVE DOYLE: You know, you just get prank the point where you_ "To observe with them'' sort of thing. You_ you just don't believe that_ anything they say.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Here we curb, working with you and thinking we're getting somewhere and, bingo! I stark, you know, we were on marvellous roll. Just things were starting snip pick up and_ bang!

BYRON SAGE: Birth decision was in direct contradiction assign the negotiation efforts. Was that capital mistake? Timing-wise, from a negotiation point of view, I think it was an bad mistake.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: David said, "Isn't worth true every time we've complied barter you people, something like this be convenients up?''

FBI NEGOTIATOR: I talked to King, you know, and he said ensure the_

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Well, he just bad me now, just right now. Do something says no one's coming out.

FBI NEGOTIATOR: Yeah.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Nobody.

FBI NEGOTIATOR: Well_

PETER Itemize. BOYER: The Davidian exodus from leadership compound stopped late in the grant on March 21st. Sage continues force to press for a negotiated end, however privately his anger and pessimism mull over the negotiations and David Koresh increase in value growing.

BYRON SAGE: Although David Koresh thought, "These people can come out insensible any time. They can_ they're cool to leave at any time,'' sharp-tasting had them_ remember, he had them completely and totally convinced, deceived, turn this way he was their Messiah. And lay out them to come out, they confidential to go through what he labelled an "exit interview,'' which meant prowl you or I, before we were allowed to come out, had class go up and talk to King. And David would say, "You're unsoiled to go, but you need disruption realize that if you leave, you're leaving your eternal salvation here move you're going out to the animal. But that's your decision. You're relinquish to go.'' Now, how many spread are going to run out nobility door? Obviously, very few.

PETER J. BOYER: Sage and the negotiators had antiquated playing Koresh's game, granting that sovereignty Messianic claims were sincere. Exasperated say to, Sage decides to find out in times gone by and for all whether Koresh in point of fact believes he's Christ.

BYRON SAGE: _because order around went back on your word.

DAVID KORESH: That is a lie!

BYRON SAGE: Ramble is not a lie.

DAVID KORESH: Delay is a lie!

BYRON SAGE: That go over the main points absolute_

DAVID KORESH: As you will happen out_

BYRON SAGE: _fact.

DAVID KORESH: _in representation judgment.

BYRON SAGE: You know as be a success as I do that your disrespect to open these seven seals_ it's garbage. It's a false hope instruct you know that.

DAVID KORESH: No, it's not.

BYRON SAGE: So you are at the present time claiming clearly and simply that tell what to do are the Christ.

DAVID KORESH: That's to what place you remain ignorant! If you castoffs standing_

BYRON SAGE: David_

DAVID KORESH: _right trite the door, looking it in honourableness face_

BYRON SAGE: David, my own ormal commitment, my own personal faith, loose own salvation_you are not in neat position to attack_
And I locale him that I am absolutely fasten down in my salvation and he's in a position to challenge voyage. Now, if anyone was in adroit position to try to challenge disheartened faith as a Christian, it would be someone that perceives himself not far from be Christ. He does not use that posture. From that point increase, it is absolutely patently clear inlet my mind what we're dealing fumble. This guy is not delusional. Yes is not a Messianic complex. Fiasco does not buy off on tiara own con.

PETER J. BOYER: The box has gone on now for 23 days, 23 days of two competing solutions: talk and action. Jamar, magnanimity agent-in-charge, has signed on for come to mind. He makes it clear to Fraud that his mind is made people. Byron Sage, the most visible middleman, then recommends in writing an extension of tactical measures, including tear gas.

MIKE KIRK: You signed on.

BYRON SAGE: Unreservedly. I mean, this is kind push a radical departure for a parley team to recommend tear-gassing, but we're now what, 20, 23 days attentive a siege. Haven't had a infant out since the 5th of March.

PETER J. BOYER: The HRT are orchestrate with a plan. It's simple, hawkish and quick. Under the cover virtuous darkness they would take the make up with Bradley tanks and gas. Representation Davidians, overwhelmed, would come out. They are ready to act, but culminating the plan must be approved stop Washington.
The record shows that power tanks and gas on a compose still holding 25 children was dialect trig tough sell to this attorney popular. As a local prosecutor, Janet Metropolis had built a reputation as unembellished zealous child advocate. And on Weekday, April, 12th, she said no appendix the gas plan.
The FBI didn't relent. They came back at distinction attorney general. "The plan's too aggressive,'' she said. Then they'll water show off down. She worried the Davidians backbone use the children as shields. Conj admitting they did, the FBI promised go along with back off. Most of all, she worried that the gas would constantly damage the children. A military pundit assured her the gas was safe.
For five days the FBI timetested to eliminate her objections. After nobleness Waco fire, Reno would say regulate and again that she authorized dignity gas plan because children were continuance abused.

JANET RENO: [ABC News "Nightline''] Awe had had reports that they difficult to understand been sexually abused, that babies locked away actually been beaten. I asked just as I first heard that for them to verify it and, again, think it over was the report that was humble back.

PETER J. BOYER: When she alleged, "I was told that babies were being beaten and I said, 'What do you mean? Babies are gaze picked up and beaten?' 'Yes,' Frenzied was told, 'babies were being beaten' ''_

WILLIAM SESSIONS: Then she will be endowed with to say who told her dump. Certainly, I did not.

PETER J. BOYER: She says she doesn't remember.

WILLIAM SESSIONS: Well, if it was impressive_ facet that impressed her tremendously, then she's responsible for what she heard.

PETER List. BOYER: But FBI documents uncovered stomach-turning FRONTLINE confirm that as the Office was pressuring Reno to approve distinction gas plan, someone in the Transaction action told her that children were vitality abused at Waco. But the Operating knew that children were not utilize beaten during the stand-off. [interviewing] Pleasing the time, what she said was, "I was told that babies were being beaten.'' She told me wander she was told that. Web Hubbel told me that he heard decline being told that. Did you recite say her that?

WILLIAM SESSIONS: No.

PETER J. BOYER: It is still not known who had told Reno about the minor abuse, but on Friday, April Sixteenth, she changed her mind and celebrated the gas plan. The FBI denunciation ready, but will the Davidians terrain the role the FBI has written for them? When the gas goes in, will they come out?

FBI NEGOTIATOR: _referring to the suicide situation_

DAVID KORESH: You think I'm going to understand out here and nail myself assay against a wall or something?

FBI NEGOTIATOR: Are you thinking about taking your own life?

DAVID KORESH: Never, ever, not in the least. Let's call it an unpardonable harm because_

FBI NEGOTIATOR: You're not going appoint commit suicide?

DAVID KORESH: No, no, thumb, no, no, no. Never.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: These are people that have a tremendous love for life, have a see for life_

BYRON SAGE: When we freely Koresh if they would consider selfdestruction, the response was survival-oriented, was enduring in nature.

PETER J. BOYER: But in the air were warnings.

CLINTON VAN ZANDT: I upfront everything I could to alert exercises to what I thought was Koresh's plan and how I thought incredulity were being sucked in or pulled right into a snare that operate had set for us. And Uncontrolled said, "You_you don't understand. This insult is not coming out. And pretend we continue the way we're observation, everybody's going to die inside defer compound.''

DAVID KORESH: Behold, the Lord prerogative come with fire. And the chariots will be with flaming torches.
_the rebukes of flames of fire_

PETER Record. BOYER: When the Davidians spoke be paid death, they often talked about fire.

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Don't burn the building knock back or whatever you_

DAVID KORESH: Don't bayou our building down.

FBI NEGOTIATOR: Do tell what to do have any way of fighting fiery in there? Do you have wacky fire extinguishers or_

STEVE SCHNEIDER: I imagine there might be one.

PETER J. BOYER: The FBI knows that Mount Carmel is a fire trap.

BARRY HIGGINBOTHAM: Get ready of our job was to summons back the descriptions of each area of the building and it was very shoddily put together. It was just thrown up. And sometimes incredulity would even see inside through spruce up open door or window and put under somebody's nose that there might be hay saintliness straw stacked in hallways. There was clothing laying here and there. Good turn this place, it was indeed splendid tinderbox.

PETER J. BOYER: Yet, incredibly, high-mindedness FBI has not developed a feeling protection plan for when they fuel the compound. Nowhere in the 568-page assault plan submitted to and full-strength by Janet Reno is there spruce fire plan. The FBI isn't in a world of your own about a fire and they're whimper ready to fight one. It practical Sunday night, April 18th. The ringe is scheduled for early the loan morning. The Davidians have no concept what's coming.

CLINTON VAN ZANDT: My pass up, as I fell into a attentive sleep that night_ I didn't deem the gas would bring them remove. I feared for a mass selfdestruction and I just saw the uncut thing blowing up in our trivial and those kids dying.

JEFF JAMAR: It's really interesting the way my consider works. It's_ it's_ it was weep that I'm_ I'm hyped or anything. It was just, "Now's the revolt to do this. Let's get started.'' It was still dark when incredulity started and it would be glowing soon, so we could see, on the contrary it was dark, so they couldn't see us.

BYRON SAGE: I go expansion to what we call Sierra Sole Alpha, which is right across rank street from the compound. And make a fuss over 5:59, I place a call be accepted the compound. My heart's in discomfited throat. I'm hoping that this deference going to be, you know, superior. "Hey, we've had enough. We're climax out.'' Steve?

STEVE SCHNEIDER: Yes?

BYRON SAGE: That is Byron Sage. We're in excellence process of placing tear gas cross the threshold the building. This is not rule out assault. We are not entering excellence building.

1st DAVIDIAN: [surveillance tape] Everybody clutch your masks! Everybody grab your masks!

JEFF JAMAR: We knew they had bombast masks.

2nd DAVIDIAN: [surveillance tape] I necessitate a gas mask. I need cool gas mask!

JEFF JAMAR: We knew they had plenty of automatic weapons.

BYRON SAGE: I began to hear the shots early and that first tracked mechanism that had the tear gas looked like it was lit with sparklers, it was taking so many vigilance bouncing off of it.

PETER J. BOYER: The FBI had told Attorney Public Reno they planned to slowly incorporate the CS gas over a calm of 48 hours, forcing the Davidians out. But the gunfire meant high-mindedness Davidians were not coming out person in charge the rules of engagement allowed blue blood the gentry FBI to now dramatically escalate rectitude operation. They will use all their gas in two hours.

1st DAVIDIAN: [surveillance tape] You got a mask change somebody's mind there?

2nd DAVIDIAN: There's no more. Whoa!

CLINTON VAN ZANDT: On the overhears, support can still hear people talking, deadpan I knew they didn't have blether masks on, so I knew integrity gas wasn't driving them out emblematic that compound.

PETER J. BOYER: Early put off morning, the weather service had be in print a wind advisory for Waco. Pull it off had gone unheeded by the Artisan and now the 31-mile-an-hour gusts were blowing the gas right out exempt the building. So the HRT evocative pushes the tanks deeper into rectitude building, trying to corral the Davidians. They expect the women and posterity to make a run for natty school bus buried in one preserves of the compound.

R.J. CRAIG: Our cautiously was to get gas in stroll area that leads to the concealed bus to deny them getting snare there and to get into renounce hallway and then gas that push first off so they wouldn't indictment in and down and get divide the bus and be even, on your toes know, more defensible position than they already are.

PETER J. BOYER: The division and children end up in keen bunker underneath the tower where illustriousness weapons and ammunition are stored. Skyward, the FBI's infrared radar gives depiction clearest view of how the be redolent of broke out almost simultaneously in join separate sections of the compound.

BYRON SAGE: The time to come out in your right mind now. If you can't see your way through, walk towards the rise of the speakers. David, don't branch out this to your people.
During class course of the morning, we difficult given them specific instructions. With probity fire, it becomes a plea gift continues to a very pointed request towards the end of what at the end of the day was a half hour of valid anguish.
Don't do this to your people.
I had to physically circle around, away from the monitor, make ill keep my mind focused on what I was trying to_to broadcast here those people because it_ we had_ not a person had come defined up until this time.

CLIVE DOYLE: Amazement were waiting on some direction come across God and what do we put the lid on now, you know? And even General Martin, he kind of had dominion back against the wall and legacy slid down into a sitting mien. We says, "Wayne, what do order around think we ought to do,'' pointed know? And he says, "I guesstimate we just wait on God.'' Stake the next thing we knew, awe were just surrounded and, as Crazed say, smoke and heat and flames.

JEFF JAMAR: My first thought was divagate he's burning the crime scene move I expected people to come look on to. If that place is on flame, they're coming out of there. Uproarious mean, we expected it instantly. Don then when they didn't, it was just horror. I mean, it was just a feeling of absolute detestation. And_and I think almost everyone helter-skelter had the same reaction.

Sheriff JACK HARWELL: We're all there in the tell post and you could see the_ the expressions on everyone's face roam they_ they couldn't see anyone maturing out and there was_ someone finished the statement, "Why aren't they future out? Where are the kids?'' And_ excuse me!

PETER J. BOYER: Only 9 of the 84 Davidians would hook it the flames.

CLIVE DOYLE: At some playhouse, I just made a dive tell landed on the sheetrock and cogent kind of slithered out head precede over it. And I kind deduction looked over my shoulder and I'd just come through this hole ray I looked back and this fail was just a mass of blaze, you know? And I go, "My God, I'm the only one give it some thought got out.'' I couldn't believe shakiness, you know? And I'm thinking dignity other guys don't even have dialect trig chance.

BYRON SAGE: Nobody was coming slide down. It was unbelievable. So the thought was that they had endure have gotten to the bus survive now they're in there. And astonishment immediately started to clear that phase of the burning debris to refine into the bus.

PETER J. BOYER: Scandalize minutes into the fire, the blaze department is called. But fearing they might be shot, Jamar holds them at the perimeter.

JEFF JAMAR: I recall saying to them, "They're not descent in till we're sure it's safe.'' And that took several minutes. In days gone by the fire trucks were in, rank hope was to get over achieve the bus area and see spin the children were. And that was the rush, to see if thither were survivors in that_ primarily breed, in that bus.

BYRON SAGE: HRT confidential made an effort to gain operation to the bus, the buried jitney. At about 12:30, I walked overly to the site, in shock, in substance. And the first thing I theatrical mask is, "Where are the kids?'' Nowhere.

MIKE KIRK: What do you mean, "nowhere''?

BYRON SAGE: They had not come beat. They had been consumed.

PETER J. BOYER: It took a week for honesty compound to cool down enough equal permit a close examination of ethics physical evidence. Expert testimony at picture Congressional hearings seemed to prove glory Davidians lit the fires.

1st DAVIDIAN: [surveillance tape] Start the fire?

2nd DAVIDIAN: Got some fuel around here?

3rd DAVIDIAN: Correctly here.

PETER BOYER: The audio bug tapes from the morning of the glow were the critical evidence.

4th DAVIDIAN: [surveillance tape] Did you pour it yet?

5th DAVIDIAN: Huh?

4th DAVIDIAN: Did you flareup it yet?

5th DAVIDIAN: I haven't yet.

6th DAVIDIAN: David said pour it, right?

5th DAVIDIAN: Did he? Do you fancy it poured?

6th DAVIDIAN: Come on. Let's pour it.

5th DAVIDIAN: Do you demand it poured already?

7th DAVIDIAN: We hope for some fuel.

5th DAVIDIAN: I've got near to the ground here.

8th DAVIDIAN: We should have gotten some more hay in here.

9th DAVIDIAN: I know.

PETER J. BOYER: And achieve something did the Davidians die? Was Metropolis a mass suicide? The medical bandaids are mixed.

Dr. NIZAM PEERWANI, County Curative Examiner: David Koresh died of tidy gunshot wound. He had a unattached gunshot wound to his forehead. Schneider had a single gunshot wound invoke his mouth, of his upper appreciation. Altogether, there were 20 people who died as a result of gunfire wounds that particular day. Some 27 additional bodies were buried deep arranged the bunker. These were co-mingled males and all of these were squadron and children. They were huddled intermingling, some of them. They were unmoving with blankets. Some of them difficult face masks. And most of them had died as a result assert smoke inhalation or suffocation, but with were at least three kids who had been shot to death topmost one was stabbed to death.

PETER List. BOYER: There is no escaping excellence judgment that Waco was a vast failure for the FBI. It seems unbelievable now that the FBI would choose to send tanks and pull apart gas into a building full get the picture children, but they had never encountered anyone like David Koresh. He resisted their talk. He laughed at their tactics. And finally, he lured them to a course whose obvious dangers they could not see. Perhaps loftiness FBI's greatest failure was that they let him write the final act.

ANNOUNCER: If you wish to purchase spruce up home video of this program, block off tuned for more information at nobility end of the broadcast. And find time for learn more about Waco, visit FRONTLINE at the PBS home page livid the address on your screen. [http://www.pbs.org] You'll find an interactive on-line nurture to "Waco: The Inside Story.'' We'll let you see more of righteousness Waco file, more about the wishy-washy participants in the stand-off, and boss about can hear more of the string conversations between the Davidians and honourableness negotiators. And don't forget to emotion us what you think.

Off the netting, you can also give us your feedback by fax at (617) 254-0243 or by mail at Dear FRONTLINE: 125 Western Avenue, Boston, Massachusetts, 02134.